Posts
Shalom R. Abrams:
If I remember this part of the Tractate's Gemorah, the rabbis were trying to figure out ways to fulfill the ten adult male rule for a minyon and then later the three adult men rule for saying birchot ha mazon, with out having the actual number of males needed. Torah scrolls, arks, and even the Sabbath itself were considered as applicable to be part of the assembled. Even a debate on the number of pubic hairs was discussed on when a male was considered an adult.
The age of 13 is mentioned as the age of one becoming an adult male, but according to the Shulcan Aruch, the Orach Chaim 55:9, and the Even AEzer 155;17-18, the age of 13 must be reached but also two public hairs must have grown, that are long enough to be folded over in half. R. Yochanan of the Talmud period says a boy younger than 13, with these two public hairs, can be counted in a 3 man zimun quorum, but not a full minyon.
But of all the leniencies, it was R. Nachman, who allowed a non adult male to be considered if he knew to Whom the Bracha is to be recited. Since that is the third word of the blessing, Ad-nai, this eliminates a child who knows the words, but not the meaning.
The Aramaic of the pumpkin line is 'small pumpkins are discernable' (when they have burst forth) 'from their sap."
It appears that 'back then', one's behavior as a child was pre determinative of his actions as an adult. Of course, as for every folk phrase there is the opposite. The Torah certainly believed that if a child disobeyed his parents that he ate or drank too much, he may as well be killed, while still a child, as there was no hope for him.The Talmudic rabbis did not believe this. On the other hand, we have the story of the redemption and change of Yakov the usurper, into Israel the God wrestler.
If we as parents or teachers, deem a child to be a future scholar, and treat him like such, chances are he will be. Conversely if a child is not doing so well, and we deem him to a life of a tanner, (one of the Talmud's not so likeable professions), he will most likely grow to be one as well.
So for every child who we can say, ah, he was a brilliant kid and now he is a Torah scholar, there is one who we could also say, he was not such a bright kid, but look at him now.
Better we don't 'judge' children but give all positive re-enforcement and chances to succeed. As Abaye later went on to teach :"What is heard from a child's mouth is merely a repetition of what he has heard from his parents" (Sukkah 56b),
I am interested R. Abrams, why the pumpkin phrase wasn't used by Abaye's uncle who raised him, as he was an orphan, Rabbah bar Nachmani, when Abaye was known as a wonderful juggler at the water drawing festival, Simchat Bait HaSho'eva, during Sukkah, recorded in Tractate Sukkah 53a? Abaye could have been sent to the circus.
And my lovely wife, who is nudging me to get ready for Shabbat, chimed in, with "pumpkins are a new world gourd and only came to Europe and the Mid East, after 1492 and these 2 kids were 12 or so around 280 CE." I am blessed with my own Bruriah.
But what I found interesting is the pointing to the ceiling and to the sky of the two children. This is a very childlike conception of G!d. It would have been amazing if one or both, encircled their hands around the room, signifying G!d is everywhere, or better still pointed to each other's hearts, signifying G!d is with in us, or pointing to all of the people present signifying we are all made in His image.But they may have heard many an unterance, begin or end with, 'for the sake of Heaven.'
So how did these two kids turn out? Abaye, the one who pointed to the sky, was a great amora in Babylon, and spent his adult life debating Rava, told in the "Havayot d'Abaye ve'Rava." But aside from his wisdom, and great scholarship, most notably in Tractate Sabhedrin, he was most known for his piety and loving of peace, urging his Talmudim to "Be mild in speech; surpress your wrath; and maintain good-will in intercourse with your relatives as well as with others, even with strangers in the market-place."(Berachot 17a)
Just as Lewis needed his Martin, Rava needed his Abaye. In the 100s of debates recorded in the Talmud, Rava's opinion came out on top, except for six. But when the Rosh Yeshiva of Pembedita retired, Abaye became the new head of the academy, and Rava moved to start his own. Rava also believed in ethics, and his quote of "When one is brought for his Heavenly Judgment, the first question he is asked is, 'Did you deal honestly with your fellow human beings?...(and not did you keep kashrut or Shabbat?)" (Shabbat 31a) is one of my favorite verses in the Talmud.
Shabbat Shalom and a sweet Passover,
Arthur
Can You Tell What Kind of Adult A Child Will Become?, copyright,
Judith Z. Abrams, 2007
Soon, we will have our seders during which we will investigate the
nature of the four sons. It leads to an interesting question: can
you tell what a child will be like judging from his/her behavior as a
child? The Talmud relates the following story about two of our
greatest sages when they were but boys:
A child younger than 13 years old who knows to whom the benediction
is addressed (i.e., God) may be counted for zimmun (the invitation to
say grace after meals). When Abaye and Rava were boys, once they
were sitting before Rabbah. Said Rabbah to them: To whom do we
address the benedictions?
They replied: To the All Merciful.
And where does the All Merciful abide? Rabba asked.
Rava pointed to the roof; Abaye went outside and pointed to the sky.
Said Rabbah to them: Both of you will become Rabbis.
This accords with the popular saying, "Every pumpkin can be told from
its stalk. (B. Berachot 48a)
Discussion Questions:
1. Can "every pumpkin be told from its stalk"? Or can children
turn out to be quite different as adults?
2. What do you make of how the two boys indicated God's
location? Does it have any significance?
P.S. I must say that in my experience sometimes the worst behaved
teenagers turn out to be the best behaved adults. One of the joys of
being a rabbi for as long as I've been one is to see misbehaved
teenagers (and you know who you are!) take their place as community
leaders.
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.
